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Rahim's avatar

Dear Brother Raza,

Assalamu Alaikum,

I hope you're doing well.

I'm a Bihari Syed by family tradition, though I don’t have a documented 'shijra' That said, I'm very passionate about understanding my lineage better and exploring the historical claims passed down through my family.

Recently, I took a Y-DNA test. The results gave me 17 Y-STR marker values and assigned my haplogroup as J2a1, I’ve been trying to make sense of it all, and I was hoping you could help me with a few questions:

1. Is it possible for two biological Syeds to have different haplogroups?or all true biological Syeds should have one haplogroup?

2. Is J1 > P58 > L859 the only haplogroup considered valid for the Prophet’s (PBUH) lineage, ( is it an established scientific fact?) or are there other possibilities too?

3.Can a haplogroup really be confirmed just from 17 Y-STR markers, or is that too limited ?

4. Do you have the modal values for Zaidi Wasti Syeds for comparison?I’d like to see how my results line up.

Here are the markers from my test — I’d be grateful if you could provide the expected/modal values for these:

| Marker |

| ---------- |

| DYS456 |

| DYS389 I |

| DYS390 |

| DYS389 II |

| DYS458 |

| DYS19 |

| DYS385 a/b |

| DYS393 |

| DYS391 |

| DYS439 |

| DYS635 |

| DYS392 |

| Y GATA H4 |

| DYS437 |

| DYS438 |

| DYS448 |

I’d really appreciate any insight or guidance you can share. Looking forward to your response.

Best regards,

Syed Rahim

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Sayyid Rayyan 'Ali Al-Hashimi's avatar

It's a pretty good post.

Did you take any samples from Patna?, as it seems to have been the capital of the region of Bihar for a long time, and there have been Arab and Sayyid communities living there for centuries who came to Bihar after the conquest of Bihar by the Tughluqs to spread Islam.

Phulwari Sharif is one such example, as there's a community there claiming to be Zaynabids and there lineage seems quite accurate according to the books of the Ansab as well. Their ancestor is Amir 'Ataullah Shah Zaynabi who came to Bihar due to riots in Delhi. He was an Amir of the Suri Sultanate as well as that of Humayun.

Maner Sharif is yet another. There's also the famous clan of Imam Taj Faqih Al-Hashimi who's great-grandson Sharf Ad-Din Yahya Maneri is perhaps the most famous Firdousia Suhrawrdiya Sufi saint. They claim to be descendants of Zubayr ibn 'Abd Al-Muttalib. He's technically credited for the start of Islam in Bihar. He was either from Hebron or Jerusalem. Now we know that the Banu Muttalib(the clan to which Imam Shafi'i belonged to)(sister clan of the Banu Hashim) had settled in Palestine.

There's also the family of Adam Sufi and Muzaffar Shams Balkhi who both have their origins in Balkh and are claimants of being descendants of 'Ali Al-Asghar ibn Imam Zayn Al-'Abidin. Apparently, descendants of Qasim, who's the great-grandson of 'Ali Al-Asghar were found in Balkh according to the Books of the Ansab. As Bihar and Afghanistan already have a long connection with regards to Sher Shah Suri and other Afghans seeking refuge in Bihar during the different Delhi Sultanates.

There's also the family of Shams Ad-Din Mashhadi who's brother Salah Ad-Din is the ancestor to the Safavid Kings.

,

There's also the family of Pir Damriya Muhammad Zayn Al-'Abidin Suhrawardi. They are Zaidi Sadat but not from Abul Farah Wasti. His great-great grandfather migrated from Wasit to Delhi. He came to Bihar during the Noorhani dynasty of Bihar which was a leftover of the Delhi Sultanate.

There's also the family of Badr Ad-Din Badr 'Alam Qadri Shahbazpuri who's a descendant of Abul Farah Al-Wasti. who came to Bihar.

There's also the family of Imam Ad-Din Rajgiri Shattari who claim to be descendants of Ibrahim Al-Ghamr.

There's also the family of 'Aleem Ad-Din Gaisu Daraz Nishapuri who claim to be descendants of Muhammad Al-Ma'mun Dibaj ibn Imam Ja'far Sadiq.

There's also the family of Sayyid Ahmed Hamdani Charmposh who's father migrated from Hamdan to Bihar due to the coming of the Mongols. The family claims descent from 'Abd Allah ibn Imam Musa Al-Kazim.

There's another family of Wahid Ad-Din Mashhadi who's father migrated from Mashhad to Delhi. He then came to Bihar during the Tughluqs. The family also claims descent from Zaydi clan.

There's also the family of Shah Shahbaz Muhammad Bhagalpuri. They claim descent from 'Ali Al-'Uraidi ibn Imam Ja'far Sadiq. His father migrated from Kirman, Iran to Bukhara and then from there to India, eventually settling in Bihar.

There's also the family Makhdum Shams Ad-Din Samman Chishti Arouli who's the grandson of Ashraf Abi Talib Sharf Ad-Din Nishapuri who's considered the ancestor to the famous Kintur clan of Uttar Pradesh to which Ayatollah Ruhullah Khomeini and Waris 'Ali Shah belonged to.

He came to Bihar during the Delhi Sultanate. The family of course claims descent from Hamza ibn Imam Musa Al-Kazim.

There are also other communities claiming descent from Husaynids and Hasanids.

Over a span of 500 years(1100s-1600s) around 50-60 Sayyid individuals from different clans came to Bihar, around 40-42 of these individuals' families have recorded complete Shajrah Nasabs.

Keep in mind Sayyids are not numerous in Bihar but rather make up just around 1.16% of the Muslim population of Bihar/Bihari Muslims which is around 290,000+ out of a total of 25 million Muslims.

It would be great if you found more samples from here too. Peace.

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